Whole Foods founder John Mackey sat for a fascinating interview with Shane Parrish of The Knowledge Project in December last year. Here are a few nuggets of wisdom from the interview that relate to having an empowered mindset and embracing capitalism as a force for good in the world. Note the time stamps for each quote in parentheses (hour: minute : second).

The above photo shows Macke and a coworker at a Whole Foods in 1984s. Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-whole-foods-market-history-2022-8

“It’s easy to be a saint on the mountaintop” (0:7:30)

Mackey is a vegan. His original store, “Safer Way”, the precursor to Whole Foods, did not sell meat, alcohol or white sugar. It failed.

Whole Foods succeeded by emphasizing high quality produce and natural foods, and also selling items like meat and dairy which attracted everyday shoppers. Mackey met the market where it was, not where he wanted it to be.

Mackey was criticized by hardline vegans for selling meat in his stores. It’s easy to criticize from the sidelines. If Mackey kept the Safer Way vegan-only approach, Whole Foods would’ve remained a local curiosity. Instead, he drove a nationwide natural food movement and today, you can buy organic produce everywhere – even Wal Mart.

“I’m a totally enthusiastic capitalist” (1:21:15)

In the last 250 years people have been lifted out of poverty, lifespans are longer, and literacy
rates are higher. “Science plus capitalism has allowed humanity to prosper”.

Socialism has an allure because people see the flaws and inequality in a capitalist society and think they can be solved by putting “the right people” in charge. However, “the right people never get in because the people that are most drawn to power and control of others [are] the monsters [who] eventually eliminate all the well meaning professors and put them in the gulags.” (1:28:59)

“Capitalism is always compared against its failures and it’s and socialism is always compared to its ideals. And that’s that’s not a fair comparison.” (1:31:13)

Win-win-win philosophy (1:08:23)

Mackey describes Whole Foods’ 2017 merger with Amazon. Whole Foods was seeing increased competition and losing market share. They needed to cut prices to compete but activist investors were fighting management.

“We began to look around for what I would call the win, win, win solution. How do we get a win for every one of our stakeholders? How can we do something that will be best for our customers, best for our team members, best for our suppliers, best for investors, best for the communities that we’re part of?”

He reached out to Warren Buffett, who politely declined. “I own Dairy Queen, I don’t think Whole Foods is a good brand fit for me.”

Jeff Bezos wanted to get into the grocery business. Amazon Fresh was struggling. Mackey needed a partner who understood the long-term strategy for Whole Foods.

Win-win.

After the merger Whole Foods dropped prices, Amazon raised wages for workers and picked up some of Whole Foods’ suppliers. Investors got a premium on the stock price and Uncle Sam got capital gains taxes from the deal.

“You can resolve any ethical question by [asking] what’s the win win win here? How do we all win? It solves almost all ethical questions.”

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Let’s build wealth and peace.

Matt

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